ONE OUT. I DON'T EVEN HAVE MUCH TO SAY. ALL RIGHT, EVERYONE, ARE YOU READY? CALL THIS 
          [1. Call to Order ]
          [00:00:10]
MEETING TO ORDER. THIS IS SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING ON SEPTEMBER 16TH, 2026 AT 6:00. 
          EXCUSE ME, PM, BEFORE WE GET STARTED, I'M GOING TO ASK COUNCIL MEMBER TO LEAD US IN PRAYER. IF YOU'RE ABLE, WOULD YOU PLEASE STAND FOR A SHORT PRAYER? DEAR GOD, WE WE THANK YOU FOR THIS DAY. FATHER, WE THANK YOU FOR THE BLESSINGS OVER THIS CITY. FATHER, WE THANK YOU, FATHER, FOR THE PROTECTIONS THAT YOU. YOU PLACE OVER EVERY ONE OF OUR CITY EMPLOYEES. FATHER, FROM OUR OUR PUBLIC, OUR PUBLIC SAFETY TO TO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE FIELD. LORD GOD, WE JUST ASK YOU AND AND THANK YOU FOR THAT PROTECTION. GOD, WE JUST ASK FOR FOR WISDOM OVER THIS COUNCIL TONIGHT. FATHER MADE THIS DECISION. BE BASED ON WHAT YOU WANT, FATHER, AND NOT ANYBODY ELSE. FATHER. AND WE JUST SAY THANK YOU FATHER FOR BEING WITH US EVERY DAY. IN JESUS NAME, AMEN. AMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. WE'LL CALL AGENDA ITEM 2.1 PUBLIC HEARING. PUBLIC HEARING ON A TAX INCREASE. OPEN AND CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING ON PROPOSED TAX INCREASE AND THE ADOPTION OF PROPOSED AD VALOREM TAX RATE OF 0.471578 PER $100 OF TAXABLE VALUE FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026 THROUGH 2027. AARON. YES, SIR. AT THIS TIME, I WOULD JUST ASK, OBVIOUSLY, THE THE PURPOSE OF THIS IS, AS YOU KNOW, A BUDGET HAS BEEN ADOPTED BY THE COUNCIL. THE TAX RATE IS WHAT SUPPORTS THAT BUDGET AT THIS TIME. I WOULD ASK THE MAYOR TO OPEN UP THE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT THIS TIME. ALL RIGHT. AT THIS TIME, WE'LL OPEN UP A PUBLIC HEARING. ANYBODY WISHING TO SPEAK ON THIS MATTER MAY DO SO. PLEASE LIMIT YOUR COMMENTS TO THREE MINUTES. DO WE HAVE ANY SPEAKERS? SEEING? NO SPEAKERS WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC 
          [2.2.1 Presenter: Mark Krawczyk, Chief Financial Officer  Consider approval on first reading of an ordinance approving, adopting, and levying a final tax  rate for the Tax Year 2026-2027 at a tax rate of $0.471578 per $100 of taxable value for the  City of Odessa for Fiscal Year 2026-2027. (Ordinance – first reading for first approval) ]
HEARING. ALL RIGHT. LET'S MOVE TO AGENDA ITEM TWO. POINT TWO. POINT ONE. CONSIDER APPROVAL ON FIRST READING OF AN ORDINANCE APPROVING, ADOPTING AND LEVYING A FINAL TAX RATE FOR TAX YEAR 2026 THROUGH 2027 AT A TAX RATE OF 0.471578 PER $100 OF TAXABLE VALUE FOR THE CITY OF ODESSA FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026 THROUGH 2027. I'LL CALL ON AARON SMITH, OUR CITY MANAGER. YES, SIR. SO AGAIN, THIS THIS DEALS WITH THE TAX RATE. WE JUST CONCLUDED A PUBLIC HEARING AT THIS TIME. 
          IT'S NOW TIME FOR THE COUNCIL TO TAKE ACTION ON AN ORDINANCE. THIS IS WOULD BE ONE OF TWO READINGS. THE FIRST ONE WOULD BE TONIGHT AND APPROVAL OR THERE'S NO NEED TO READ THE ORDINANCE, BUT WE NEED TO APPROVE IT TONIGHT. AND THEN AGAIN ON THE 22ND. AND AGAIN, BY APPROVING THIS ORDINANCE THAT WOULD SUPPORT THE ADOPTED BUDGET, AGAIN, THE TAX RATE IS 0.471578 PER $100 OF TAXABLE VALUE. ALL RIGHT. I KNOW NORMA IS NOT HERE TONIGHT. SHE'S ILL. 
          BUT DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY CITIZENS COMMENTS ON THIS AGENDA ITEM? SEEING NONE, I'D ASK FOR ANY DISCUSSION AMONG COUNCIL. I HAD A QUICK QUESTION. COULD YOU REMIND ME THE EXPECTED REVENUE FOR THE RAISE? ONE MORE OVER. SO WHAT? THAT WOULD BRING IN THE GENERAL FUND REVENUE 52,000,133 392. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, GENTLEMEN? I THINK THAT INCREASES WHAT I WAS. 
          SO 2667369. AND THAT WAS FOR GENERAL FUND, CORRECT? YES. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT GENTLEMEN, NO OTHER COMMENTS OR DISCUSSION. I'D ASK FOR A MOTION. MAYOR. I MOVE THAT THE PROPERTY TAX RATE BE INCREASED BY THE ADOPTION OF A TAX RATE OF 0.471578 PER $100 OF TAXABLE VALUATION, WHICH IS EFFECTIVELY A 4.26% INCREASE IN TAX RATE. IS THERE A SECOND, SECOND, SECOND BY COUNCILMEMBER O'CONNELL? ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? MOTION IS UNANIMOUS. LET'S GO TO 
          [2.2.3 Presenter: Aaron Smith, City Manager  Consider an ordinance for approval amending the City of Odessa Code of Ordinances by the  adoption of a fee schedule for Fiscal Year 2026-2027 to maintain non-utility fees at current  rates and adopt proposed increases to rates for the following utility services: Water,  Wastewater, Solid Waste disposal services, Stormwater rates and fees, and applicable utility  service fees. (Ordinance – first reading for first approval) ]
SECTION 2.23. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE FOR APPROVAL. AMENDING THE CITY OF ODESSA CODE OF ORDINANCES BY THE ADOPTION OF A FEE SCHEDULE FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026 2027 TO MAINTAIN NON UTILITY FEES AT CURRENT RATES AND ADOPT PROPOSED INCREASING RATES OF THE FOLLOWING UTILITY SERVICES WATER, WASTEWATER, SOLID WASTE DISPOSAL SERVICES, STORM RATES AND FEES AND UTILITY SERVICE FEES. AARON. SURE. YES, SIR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT. 
          IF YOU DON'T MIND, LET'S GO THROUGH JUST PROBABLY THE QUICK AGAIN, THIS WAS A 3%. THIS THIS 
          [00:05:02]
FEE SCHEDULE IS A 3% ACROSS THE BOARD AS IT'S AS IT'S PRESENTED IN THIS ORDINANCE. AND THAT'S ACROSS THE BOARD. AS YOU KNOW, ALL RATES ARE TIERED. SO THAT MEANS THAT FOLKS THAT ARE DISABLED OR SENIORS HAVE A LOWER RATE THAN THOSE THAT ARE NOT. FOR INSTANCE, JUST AS JUST AS ONE EXAMPLE, THIS WHAT THIS ORDINANCE DOES IS, AGAIN, IT'S A 3% FEE INCREASE ACROSS THE BOARD FOR WATER SEWER FEE, WHICH IS IN FRONT OF YOU. IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE, FOR SOLID WASTE FEE AND THEN FOR STORMWATER FEE. SO AGAIN, THIS ORDINANCE IS A STRAIGHT 3% INCREASE ACROSS THE BOARD FOR ALL OF THOSE. I CAN CERTAINLY ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS IF YOU HAVE ANY. WHY ARE WE DOING THIS ON THE SAME NIGHT THAT WE'RE PASSING OUR ORDINANCE FOR A TAX INCREASE? SURE. SO INCREASE IN EVERYTHING. SO OUR FEES HAVE TO BE DETERMINED BY ORDINANCE. AND SO THE ORDINANCE OBVIOUSLY I'M SORRY, THE BUDGET DID REFLECT A 3% INCREASE ACROSS THE BOARD. SO THE BUDGET DOES SUPPORT THIS. AARON, IS IT MY UNDERSTANDING THAT. MWD WHO WE GET OUR WATER FROM IS INCREASING THE RATE TO THE CITY OF ODESSA? THAT IS CORRECT. TO WHAT, TO 3.5% OR MORE. IT'S A LITTLE NORTH OF 3%. ALEX, DO YOU KNOW THAT NUMBER OFFHAND? BUT IT IS NORTH OF 3%. OKAY. DID WE TRY TO FIGHT THIS OR WE JUST ACCEPTING WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO TO US? WELL, WE ARE ONE OF THEIR BIGGEST WATER DISTRIBUTORS HERE. SO WE'RE ONE OF THEIR BIGGEST. SO I THINK A 3.5% INCREASE IS, IS A UNCALLED FOR BY THEM. SO AND THE CITY OF AND OF COURSE, THERE ARE 12 MEMBERS ON THAT BOARD. COME ON, ALEX, IF YOU LIKE. THERE ARE 12 MEMBERS ON THAT BOARD, FOUR OF WHICH ARE FROM THE CITY OF ODESSA, FOUR FROM BIG SPRING, FOUR FROM SNYDER. AND I'M NOT SURE IF THEY ALL VOTED UNANIMOUSLY FOR THAT INCREASE OR NOT. I'M NOT SURE. THE LAST CONVERSATION THAT I HAD FROM THEIR GENERAL MANAGER, COLE WALKER, WAS THERE, WAS PROJECTING TO BE A MONTHLY FIXED CHARGE INCREASE OF 1.8%, AND THEN THE DELIVERY CHARGE TO BE INCREASED FROM 0.3 $0.05 TO 0.3 $0.06 PER THOUSAND GALLONS. 
          SO THAT WOULD BE ONE $0.01 PER THOUSAND GALLONS. LAST YEAR, WE RECEIVED ABOUT 9.5 BILLION GALLONS FROM THEN OVER THE YEAR. AND THEN THERE'S A MONTHLY FIXED CHARGE THAT WE GET. SO THAT'S A 1.8% INCREASE ON THAT. OKAY. I THINK AND ALL IN ALL, A REASON FOR THE INCREASE, ALTHOUGH NO ONE LIKES INCREASES, I BELIEVE THEY ARE NOMINAL. AND WE ALL KNOW THAT OUR COSTS ARE GOING UP SIGNIFICANTLY TO RUN AND OPERATE WATER, SEWER AND, AND SOLID WASTE. I MEAN, JUST FOR INSTANCE, DIESEL ALONE, WE KNOW IS ALMOST RUNNING SIX BUCKS A GALLON. NOW IT IS OVER. 
          SO THE COSTS ARE OBVIOUSLY GOING UP, THE NEEDS FOR THE WATER AND SEWER DEPARTMENT ARE GREAT. PROBABLY NORTH OF $1.5 BILLION. WHEN IT'S ALL SAID AND DONE OF NEEDS THAT ARE OUT THERE THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE TAKEN CARE OF FROM A FROM A $400 MILLION WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT TO HERE IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS, WE'RE ALREADY GOING TO HAVE TO START PLANNING FOR EVEN THE NEXT PHASE OF THE WATER AND OF THE WATER PLANT, WHICH COULD BE OVER 200 MILLION. 
          WE'VE GOT WELL OVER. ALEX HELPED ME ON THIS. HOW MANY MILES OF OF WATER LINE AND SEWER LINE DO WE HAVE THAT ARE ENDING OR THAT ARE REACHING THE END OF THEIR USEFUL LIFE? I THINK WE'VE GOTTEN IT'S SEVERAL HUNDRED MILES THOUGH. JUST REAL QUICK UPDATE WATER MAINS. WE HAVE 796.5 MILES OF WATER MAINS IN OUR SYSTEM, 340 MILES OF THAT IS BEYOND ITS USEFUL DESIGN LINE, WHICH IS EXPECTED 50 YEARS. SO ANYTHING PRE 1980 RELATIVELY CAST IRON, DUCTILE IRON PIPE, ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WITH THE ASSESSMENT DONE AT APPROXIMATELY $2.5 MILLION PER MILE AT 340 MILES, THAT WOULD THAT COST JUST TO REPLACE DISTRIBUTION LINES WITHIN OUR SYSTEM WOULD BE $850 MILLION. JUST THE DISTRIBUTION SEWER. WE HAVE 621.1 MILES OF SEWER LINES, 
          [00:10:07]
AND 309 OF THOSE ARE PRE 1980 OR OVER 50 YEARS OF THEIR DESIGN LIFE. SO THEIR DESIGN LIFE AS IT WENT PAST THEIR EXPECTED LIFE. SO OF THAT THE AVERAGE IS $1.5 MILLION PER MILE AT 300 MILES. THAT COST IS 463,500,000. SO JUST BETWEEN THE TWO OF THOSE WITHIN OUR SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE JUST WITHIN THE DISTRIBUTION AND COLLECTION SYSTEM, THAT'S ABOUT $1.3 BILLION WORTH OF INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS CURRENTLY IN OUR SYSTEM IN USE. THAT IS BEYOND ITS USEFUL DESIGN LIFE. WE ALSO HAVE, AS AARON MENTIONED, THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITY THAT THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY IN DESIGN ON THAT IS PROJECTED TO COST $440 MILLION. AND WE ALSO HAVE SYSTEM NEEDS FOR GROWTH. WE HAVE A NEW WATER TOWER THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY IN DESIGN ON FOR THE UPPER PRESSURE PLANE THAT IS EXPECTED TO COME IN AT $37.5 MILLION. THAT'S JUST FOR GROWTH THERE. WE ALSO HAVE THREE TOWERS WITHIN OUR SYSTEM THAT WE'VE COMPLETED A CONDITION ASSESSMENT FOR, AND THAT WOULD JUST TO REHAB SOME OF THOSE TOWERS IS $13 MILLION. 
          SO IN A TOTAL NEEDS ASSESSMENT FOR THE CITY'S UTILITIES DEPARTMENT, BETWEEN THE WATER TREATMENT PLANT, WATER DISTRIBUTION, SEWER COLLECTION, WASTEWATER TREATMENT IN OUR ELEVATED STORAGE TOWERS, IT'S APPROXIMATELY $2 BILLION. IT'S WHICH IS EITHER REHAB WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE COMPLETED AND WHICH INCLUDES ANYTHING PAST ITS USEFUL DESIGN LIFE WITHIN OUR SYSTEM. THAT ALL WOULD COME OUT OF THE EITHER WATER OR WASTEWATER FUND ENTERPRISE FUND, CORRECT? YES, SIR. YES, SIR. AND SO CRM IS ASKING FOR HOW MUCH. SO THE LAST COMMUNICATION THAT I RECEIVED FROM COLE WAS THAT THEIR PROJECTED WAS GOING TO GO UP 1.8% ON THE MONTHLY CHARGE. THAT MONTHLY CHARGE THAT WE RECEIVE FROM THEM IS A DISTRIBUTION SERVICE CHARGE TO SUPPLY US THE THE WATER THAT IS APPROXIMATELY, IF I REMEMBER 1,518,000 SOME ODD DOLLARS PER MONTH AS A SERVICE DEMAND CHARGE, THEN WE ALSO RECEIVE A 35 CENT PER THOUSAND GALLONS FOR THE WATER THAT WE RECEIVE INTO THE PLANT. RIGHT NOW, IN THE SUMMERTIME, WE'RE RECEIVING SOMEWHERE APPROXIMATELY AROUND 30 TO 32 MILLION GALLONS A DAY. THAT MATH COMES OUT TO SOMEWHERE AROUND $800,000, $750,000 A YEAR. WE APPROXIMATELY PAY CRME DE. WE WILL APPROXIMATELY PAY. AND KAYLA, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO HELP ME OUT WITH THIS. MAYBE $19 MILLION IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO PAY IN TOTAL TO C MWD FOR RAW WATER SUPPLY. YEAH, THAT IS A YEAR. YES, SIR. WELL, I REMIND EVERYBODY THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT WATER IS BEING PUMPED UPHILL FROM LAKE IV. SO YOU GOT TO REMEMBER THEIR COSTS HAVE GONE UP 1.8%. SEEMS CHEAP TO ME BECAUSE THE LIFTING COST TO GET IT HERE IS TREMENDOUS. AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO GIVE UP? YOU WANT TO IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY WATER? I THINK WE'RE BEING A LITTLE BIT OF A PROBLEM. SO IT'S JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE DOING THE BUDGET, YOU KNOW, IN THIS TAX INCREASE TO PICK PICK YOUR POISON. YOU WANT TO CUT POLICE, YOU WANT TO CUT FIRE, YOU WANT TO CUT WATER, WHAT SERVICES YOU WANT TO CUT. SO WE CAN'T JUST CUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO KEEP UP WITH WHAT'S GOING ON. I REMIND YOU, OUR CITY IS GROWING LIKE CRAZY. 
          HERE'S HOW I REMIND YOU. WHEN I WAS BORN IN 1949, I WAS NOT BORN IN A HOSPITAL IN THIS TOWN. 
          AND LOOK AT IT NOW. YEAH. THANK YOU, MR. MITCHELL. I GUESS HE CUT ME OFF. NO, JUST THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE. I WAS NOT BORN IN A HOSPITAL. MEDICAL CENTER WAS NOT HERE. SO IT'S. 
          YOU KNOW, THIS TOWN'S GONE CRAZY. IT'S MY 77 YEARS, SO IT'S BEEN FUN TO WATCH. BUT YOU GOT TO PAY FOR WHAT? WHAT WE'RE DOING. AND THESE INCREASES ARE REASONABLE WITH THE INFLATION RATES WE'RE SEEING. SO I THINK IT'S I THINK IT'S WHAT WE GOT TO DO. AND GLAD TO TALK TO ANYBODY ABOUT IT. CHRIS, YOUR QUESTION. YES. SO I DON'T REALLY HAVE A QUESTION. I THINK I HAVE MORE OF A STATEMENT BECAUSE OF PAST COUNCILS KICKING THE BUCKET DOWN THE ROAD. WE GET TO THIS POINT WHERE WE HAVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INSTEAD OF MILLIONS OF 
          [00:15:01]
DOLLARS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIXED YEARS AGO. AND SO I WANT TO MAKE THAT POINT THAT THIS COUNCIL IS BEING FORCED TO DO SOMETHING. WE'RE NOT GOING TO KICK THE BUCKET AGAIN, BECAUSE THAT JUST KEEPS INCREASING, JUST KEEPS INCREASING AND JUST KEEPS INCREASING THIS. I SIT UP HERE AND JUST. I'M SO MAD ABOUT PAST COUNCILS DOING THIS. THEY SHOULD FROM EVERY COUNCIL, FROM THIS BOARD SHOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING ON. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO THEY ARE. THEY SHOULD HAVE TO FACE WHAT WE HAVE TO FACE RIGHT NOW. AND I WANT THAT KNOWN TO EVERYBODY IN THIS CITY THAT THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN CARE OF YEARS AGO. WE WOULD NOT BE IN THIS SHAPE RIGHT NOW IF THEY'D HAVE DONE THEIR JOB. AND SO NOW IT'S COMING DOWN ON US, MAKING US LOOK LIKE BAD. AND I'LL JUST USE THAT WORD. THAT'S PRETTY GOOD TERMINOLOGY ON THIS. IT'S MAKING ME FEEL EXPENSIVE THAT, YOU KNOW, MY FAMILY LIVES HERE, WE LIVE IN THIS CITY, AND WE'RE FIGHT FOR THIS CITY EVERY DAY. AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO RUN FOR CITY COUNCIL, YOU'RE GOING TO SIT UP HERE, FIX WHAT NEEDS TO GET FIXED DURING YOUR TERM. DO NOT KICK THE BUCKET DOWN THE ROAD. AND SO NOW WE'RE FORCED TO NOT KICK THE BUCKET. AND WE'RE NOT. AND I WANT THAT KNOWN TO EVERYBODY IN THIS CITY. THIS COUNCIL DOES NOT WANT TO HAVE ANY MORE INCREASES AT ALL, PERIOD. BUT WE GET HIT WITH THEM. WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO? IT NEEDS TO BE SHARED AROUND. WE HAVE A LOCUST TYPE ECONOMY HERE. WE'VE GOT PEOPLE THAT ARE LIVING IN RVS. WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT AREN'T EVEN SHARING IN THE EXPENSE IN THIS TOWN, BUT YET THEY'RE USING OUR ROADS, THEY'RE USING OUR WATER, THEY'RE USING OUR SEWER, THEY'RE IN OUR GROCERY STORES, YET THEY DON'T SHARE ANYTHING. THIS PART IS GOING TO STOP. WE'RE GOING TO FIND WHERE THE RVS ARE. IF YOU'RE YOU'RE LIVING HERE AND YOU'RE DOING THIS, YOU'RE GOING TO PAY THE SAME SHARE. WE ARE BECAUSE WHEN YOU LEAVE HERE, YOU FORCE THE PEOPLE OF THIS CITY TO PAY TO FIX ALL OF THIS WITHOUT YOU BEING HERE. YET YOU DESTROYED OUR ROADS AND YOU'VE DONE EVERYTHING HERE. YOU USE OUR WATER, YOU USE OUR SEWER. SO THERE'S GOT TO BE A SHARED ORDINANCE PASSED COMING UP ABOUT THESE RVS. AND TONIGHT I'M. I'M SAYING IT OUT LOUD. I WANT THEM TO KNOW YOU LIVE IN THE CITY LIMITS. WE'RE GOING TO TAX YOU FOR IT. THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS, PERIOD. BECAUSE USUALLY AN RV MEANS THERE'S TWO VEHICLES IN THERE, A WORK TRUCK, WHICH IS TAXED SOMEPLACE IN ANOTHER STATE, AND YOUR OWN PERSONAL VEHICLE, WHICH IS SOMEWHERE OUTSIDE OF THIS CITY, LIMITS YOU. WE DON'T GET ANY OF THAT TAX MONEY. SO I'M JUST CALLING IT OUT AS I SEE IT TONIGHT. I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ALL DAY TODAY. SO NO OFFENSE TO YOU, THAT WASN'T MEANT TO BE DIRECTED AT YOU. SORRY. THAT WAS MEANT TO BE DIRECTED AT THIS COUNCIL AND FUTURE COUNCILS FROM NOW ON, CITY MANAGERS ARE THE SAME WAY. 
          THEY'RE IN THE SAME SHAPE. FIX IT NOW. DO NOT KICK THIS CAN DOWN THE ROAD. WISE WORDS, CHRIS. THANK YOU. I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE MENTIONED THAT INFLATION THE PAST YEAR AS I LOOKED AT IT TODAY WAS 4%. IS THAT CORRECT? A LITTLE UNDER FOUR NOW, BUT IT HAS CORRECTED A LITTLE BIT. BUT WITH GAS PRICES JUST NOW COMING UP, IT WOULDN'T SHOCK ME IF IT WENT BACK TO FOUR HERE PRETTY QUICK. WELL THAT FED RAISED THE RATE RIGHT AND KEEPING IT BELOW THE WHAT WE'RE HAVING TO PAY AS A CITY FOR FUEL VEHICLES, EVERYTHING. I HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR YOU ALEX. WELL, IT JUST GOES BACK TO WHAT YOUR BUDGET INCLUDES. AND I KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY. WE HAD A REPAIR RECENTLY ON LUKE 338 UNIVERSITY STREET, WHERE A 60 YEAR OLD SEWER PIPE FAILED, CORRECT? YES, SIR. WHAT WAS THE COST OF THAT REPAIR OFF THE TOP? I THINK IT WAS $360,000 SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE. AND HAS THAT COME OUT OF THE GENERAL FUND OR THE SPECIFIC WATER THAT STRICTLY COMES OUT OF THE WATER SEWER FUND? YES, SIR. SO IF ANY OF THESE 60, 70, 80 YEAR OLD PIPES BURST, IT'S COMING OUT OF BASICALLY THE ENTERPRISE FUND FOR THE WATER FUND, CORRECT? YES, SIR. ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S WHAT. MAKE SURE OF THAT. THANK YOU SIR. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? YEAH. I HAD A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ON. SO IT IT AS I'M THINKING THROUGH THIS. AND WE VISITED A LITTLE ABOUT THIS MORNING, TINA AND I DID. IT JUST SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE SHOULD BE A WAY TO SPREAD THE 3% EVEN THINNER, SO THAT SOME OF THIS IS ABSORBED BY THE PEOPLE USING EVEN MORE 
          [00:20:09]
WATER THAN THE SMALLER RESIDENTIAL FOLKS. AND. AGAIN, I DON'T QUITE KNOW HOW TO DO THAT. AND WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THE MATH, I DON'T AGAIN, QUITE KNOW HOW TO DO THAT. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS BROAD STROKE OF 3% ACROSS THE BOARD, I DO REMEMBER IN OUR BUDGET MEETING TALKING ABOUT FINDING A WAY NOT TO HAVE IT INCREASE, THE USERS WHO WERE NOT USING AS MUCH. AS MUCH AS IT WAS GOING TO THE THE COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL FOLKS. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS DOES THAT WHEN YOU WHEN YOU HIT EVERYBODY WITH A 3% INCREASE AND. YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT. WHEN WE PICKED UP THE HOT POTATO. WE'RE JUST I MEAN, BASICALLY GOING TO HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT WE'VE LOST TWO YEARS OF HAVING. A WAY TO GO THROUGH THE BUDGET AND, AND LOOK AT THE FEE SCHEDULE AND LOOK AT THESE THINGS IN A WAY THAT WE CAN MAKE SOME OF THESE DETERMINATIONS. BUT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO FIND A WAY THAT WE CAN ALWAYS SIT UP HERE AND SAY, WE'LL PUT A FREEZE ON YOUR WATER WHEN YOU HIT 65, OR YOU ARE A DISABLED CUSTOMER SO THAT THOSE FOLKS DON'T HAVE TO SIT OUT AND WORRY ABOUT THAT EVERY YEAR WHEN THIS COMES UP. YOU KNOW, I DID LIKE THE SUGGESTION THAT TINA AND I TALKED ABOUT THAT, THAT THESE THINGS ARE PLANNED THREE, FOUR, FIVE YEARS IN ADVANCE SO THAT NONE OF THIS IS A SURPRISE. AND I DO AGAIN, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN, WHEN WE PICKED UP THE HOT POTATO, IT'S BEEN AN UPHILL CLIMB TO GET TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY. AND I DO UNDERSTAND THAT NOW WITH, WITH SOME, SOME NEW PEOPLE IN THESE POSITIONS THAT WHEN WE SIT HERE NEXT YEAR, IT'S GOING TO LOOK COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. 
          BUT I LOOK THROUGH THIS FEE SCHEDULE AND I DON'T SEE THAT ANY OF IT'S BEEN ADDRESSED EVER. 
          I MEAN, NOT EVER, OBVIOUSLY NOT EVER. BUT, YOU KNOW, I HAD A QUESTION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THIS STUFF THAT, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN ASKING, WHY CAN'T WE PUT THE DOLLAR OR TWO CHARGE ON? IF YOU WANT A PAPER BILL, YOU GOT TO PAY FOR IT. WHY IS IT MY RESPONSIBILITY TO PAY FOR YOUR PAPER BILL THAT YOU WANT? WHY IS IT MY RESPONSIBILITY TO PAY FOR IF YOU WANT TO USE A CREDIT CARD? YOU KNOW, AND. AND IF THOSE THINGS DO LIVE WITHIN THE THE ENTERPRISE FUND WOULD CUTTING THOSE. BECAUSE I BELIEVE THOSE ARE ABOUT $1.3 MILLION IN THE BUDGET. IT IS. 
          AND SO DOES CUTTING THOSE FEES EVEN EQUATE TO A SAVINGS IN THE WATER SEWER FUND? SO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, I SAW THAT LOOKING THROUGH HERE. YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE FEES WAS IN PD, A 75 CENT CREDIT CARD FEE. WELL, NOBODY'S CREDIT CARD FEE, $0.75. SO WE'RE LOSING MONEY ON THE DEAL. 
          FINGERPRINTING FOR $10. YOU KNOW, I HAD TO ONE OF MY BACKGROUND CHECKS THAT I HAD TO HAVE FINGERPRINTS, $50 AT THE Y. SO, YOU KNOW WHAT? I JUST WANT TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO TAKE A REALISTIC LOOK AT THIS AND SAY, ALL RIGHT, I KNOW WE'RE DOING A RATE STUDY. I KNOW THAT'S GOING TO HELP US FIGURE OUT WE'RE TRULY BILLING PEOPLE CORRECTLY, THAT THAT THE COMMERCIAL CLIENTS ARE TRULY PAYING A COMMERCIAL RATE, THAT HOWEVER MANY WHAT DO WE HAVE 75 OR WHATEVER THOSE THINGS YOU SCREW ON TO A FIRE HYDRANT, WE'RE TRULY BILLING THOSE PEOPLE. I THERE'S STILL JUST SO MANY QUESTIONS I HAVE ABOUT THIS THAT SURE THAT DON'T GIVE ME CONFIDENCE THAT THE PEOPLE AT THE LOWER END OF THIS AREN'T BEING STUCK WITH THE BILL. SO LET'S BRING UP THE, THE, THE FEE SCHEDULE BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND IT, THEY ARE GETTING PAID AND PEOPLE WITH LARGER LINES ARE GETTING HIGHER RATES. NOW, IF YOU WANT TO SAY IN THE FUTURE, MAYBE WE LOOK AT 3% FOR RESIDENTIAL UNDER A TWO INCH LINE AND GO UP FROM THERE. YEAH, THAT MIGHT BE. WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. LIKE HOW, HOW DO YOU HAVE IT TO WHERE THESE THREE QUARTER, ONE AND INCH AND A HALF FOLKS ARE ONLY GETTING A 1%, WHEREAS ANYTHING LARGER THAN THAT ARE ABSORBING THE 3%. AND IF AND IF THAT DOESN'T MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE, THEN MAYBE 
          [00:25:02]
THEY'RE AT THREE AND A HALF. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THE MATH BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE WHAT THE BILLING COLLECTS. SO AND THIS WAS ALL BASED ON A RATE STUDY THAT WAS PROBABLY DONE IN 2016, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. ANYBODY. THIS CAME FROM A VERY OLD THIS CAME THIS CAME FROM A VERY OLD. 
          THERE'S NO REASON. I JUST GO AHEAD. AND WORK CLOSELY WITH FINANCE AND WITH BILLING AND COLLECTIONS THROUGHOUT THIS FEE SCHEDULE PROCESS. AND IS IT WHERE WE'D LOVE IT TO BE RIGHT NOW? ABSOLUTELY NOT. BUT ARE WE MAKING PROGRESS IN GETTING THERE? ABSOLUTELY. THE SENIOR DISABILITY AREA, THAT'S ABOUT 11% OF OUR CUSTOMERS. AND IF YOU TAKE EVERYONE THAT'S IN THE LOW TIER 2000 OR LESS GALLONS, IT'S ABOUT 33%. ABOUT A THIRD OF OUR CUSTOMERS. AND THE VALUE OF A TIERED SYSTEM, WHICH WE ALREADY HAVE IN PLACE, IS THAT THAT 3% DOESN'T MEAN AS MUCH TO THOSE THAT FALL IN THAT FIRST TIER, AS IT DOES IMPACT THOSE WHO ARE USING MUCH MORE WATER, AND PARTICULARLY THE COMMERCIAL LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT. SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP THAT STEADY THROUGHOUT ALL OF YOUR TEARS. AND THAT WAY IT DOESN'T GET WONKY AND GET AND GET OFF. BUT IT'S, IT'S A VERY, VERY MINIMAL IMPACT TO THAT SENIOR DISABILITY TIER OR TIER ONE FOLKS. IT'S, IT'S A REAL SMALL IMPACT, THE 3%, BUT IT DOES HELP US ACHIEVE THAT REVENUE THAT WE NEED MOVING FORWARD AND KEEPS US STEADY IN OUR TEARS. DOES THAT HELP AT ALL? THAT'S YEAH, LET ME MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND IT. BUT SENIORS AND DISABLED ARE NOT GOING TO RECEIVE AN INCREASE OF 3%. OH THEY WILL THEY ARE WILL. I THOUGHT THEY WEREN'T. NO THEY WILL IN THIS PROPOSAL. THEY ARE THAT THE WATER ALONE FOR THAT SENIOR DISABILITY RATE IS I BELIEVE IT WAS WHAT, $0.60 A MONTH? AND THEN IF YOU DO ALL THE FEES, THE SEWER, THE WATER, THE SOLID WASTE, THEIR ENTIRE BILL IS JUST INCREASING OVER A DOLLAR A MONTH. AND IT JUST TO ME, THAT STATEMENT WORKS THE OPPOSITE WAY THAT IF IT'S SUCH A MINIMUM THING, THEN WHY ARE WE GOING TO MISS IT? I THINK THE CITY CITY, I THINK EVERY LITTLE BIT DOES HELP, OBVIOUSLY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THEM TOO. WELL, IT HELPS EVERYBODY. BUT BUT IF WE THINK ABOUT IT, IF WE'RE GOING TO RUN LIKE A BUSINESS AND I'VE. AND I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD, THERE IS AN ARGUMENT. SOME COULD SAY THAT, HEY, WE NEED TO RUN LIKE A BUSINESS. IF WE'RE GOING TO RUN LIKE A BUSINESS, THEN WE NEED TO CHARGE WITH THE COMMODITY IS WORTH. WELL, AND I'D LIKE TO ADD TO. AND PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BECAUSE I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE A COMPLETE YEAR YET, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THESE RATES INCREASED LAST YEAR TO. SO THAT WE HAVEN'T MENTIONED THAT THIS EVENING. AND SO THAT IS PART OF OUR CHALLENGE. TWO YEARS AGO WE HAD A WHOLE YEAR. AND THE RATE STUDY WILL BE HELPFUL. I MEAN, THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT AGAIN, THIS YOU KNOW, WE WERE RUNNING OFF OLD RATE STUDIES HERE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT BUT EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE OLD, THEY'RE CONSERVATIVE. THEY'RE VERY CONSERVATIVE. SO WHEN THE NEW RATE STUDY COMES OUT, IT'LL GIVE US AN IDEA OF, OF, OF, OF WHAT THE NEW RATES WOULD NEED TO BE FOR NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET. 
          THAT BEING SAID, IF THE COUNCIL'S PREROGATIVE IS TO NOT RAISE RATES ON SENIORS AND DISABILITIES, OTHER THAN THAT, THEN YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT BUT 11%, I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S NOT WHAT ELECTRICAL COMPANIES ARE DOING. THAT'S NOT WHAT GAS COMPANIES ARE DOING. 
          THAT'S NOT WHAT ANY, ANY, ANY, ANYBODY THAT RUNS A UTILITY IS DOING THIS TENDS TO ONLY COME UP IN MUNICIPALITIES BECAUSE YOU ARE MORE. WELL, YOU'RE MORE YOU'RE MORE PEOPLE ARE MORE LIKELY TO TO TALK TO YOU TO COME HERE. THEY DON'T GO TO ATMOS, THEY DON'T GO TO ENCORE. 
          THEY DON'T GO TO ALL THOSE PLACES AND TALK TO THEIR PEOPLE THAT ARE SETTING THESE RATES HERE AT MUNICIPALITIES. THEY DO. BUT I'LL TELL YOU THIS, WE ARE NOT CHARGING WHAT THE COMMODITY IS WORTH. WE ARE NOT. ALEX JUST TOLD YOU ABOUT $2 BILLION WORTH OF NEED. AND THE REASON WHY WE HAVE $2 BILLION WORTH OF NEED IS BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT BEEN CHARGING WITH THIS COMMODITY IS WORTH. AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN. IF WE IF I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT YOU'RE ALSO NOT GOING TO MAKE UP $2 BILLION WORTH OF CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT WITH CHARGING 11% OF OUR CUSTOMERS AT $0.69 RAISE. 
          BUT BUT MY POINT IS IT'S GOING TO NEED TO GO UP AGAIN NEXT YEAR. YES. AND IT'S GOING TO NEED TO GO UP AGAIN NEXT YEAR. SO STAIR STEPPING PEOPLE UP IS BETTER THAN JUST A ONE TIME FORGETTING IT. I JUST I AM TIRED OF VOTING ON THESE INCREASES BASED ON TEN YEAR OLD DATA. AND WELL, SITTING HERE WITH QUESTIONS THAT THAT AND CAN I WE AGREE. AND AND THAT'S 
          [00:30:03]
WHY WE'RE DOING A RATE STUDY CAN OFFER SOME CLARIFICATION TO A QUESTION MR. HANEY HAD RIGHT AT THE START OF THIS ORDINANCE IS WHY NOW? WHY THE FEE PROPOSAL NOW, WE'RE HOPING, MOVING FORWARD THAT THIS IS AN ANNUAL PROCESS FOR US, THAT IT'S PART OF OUR BUDGET PROCESS. 
          IT'S PART OF OUR REVENUE PROJECTIONS WITHIN OUR BUDGET. AND SO IN ORDER TO DO THAT CORRECTLY, WE NEED TO CONSIDER THESE FEES ANNUALLY AND THEN ONCE A YEAR PRESENT THEM TO COUNCIL AT THIS TIME. SO MOVING FORWARD, HOPEFULLY WE HAVE THAT IN PLACE. MY COMMENT IS THAT I UNDERSTAND THE NEED, BUT I LIKE CRAIG'S IDEA THAT IN THE FUTURE I'D LIKE TO FREEZE SENIOR CITIZENS AND DISABLED AND PICK ON. WHEN I SAY PICK ON, LOOK, THERE'S PEOPLE THAT USE MORE WATER THAN ANYBODY. YOU CAN SEE IT RIGHT HERE ON THIS CHART. YOU GOT A TEN INCH LINE. YOU'RE GOING TO USE A LOT MORE WATER THAN SOMEBODY WITH A THREE QUARTER INCH LINE. AND MAYBE WE HAVE A GRADUATED SYSTEM OF AN INCREASE. LIKE FOR SOME IT'S TWO, FOR SOME IT'S THREE, FOR SOME IT'S FOR SOME IT'S FIVE. AND RECAPTURE THAT REVENUE TO THE PEOPLE USING THE MOST OF IT. 
          AND LET FIRSTLY, THIS BE MY VOTE IS TO LET FREEZE IT. JUST SAY WE'RE GOING TO FREEZE IT AND RECOGNIZE IT'S GOING TO AFFECT REALLY 11% OF OUR CUSTOMERS. BUT THE 11% THAT REALLY PROBABLY HAVE THE HARDEST TIME AFFORDING IT. SO I AGREE WITH THAT CONCEPT. AND I AGREE WITH, YOU KNOW, COUNCIL MEMBER HANEY, IT'S FRUSTRATING TO ME TO SIT HERE AND HEAR THAT SINCE 1980, WE REALLY HADN'T DONE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS ON WATER LINES BECAUSE THESE LINES THAT WERE BUILT POST WORLD WAR TWO ARE NOW AGED OUT, AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN REPLACED IN THE LAST 30, 40 YEARS. SO AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, MAYOR, AND I DON'T DISAGREE AT ALL. I DO THINK THAT THE TIERED SYSTEM DOES OFFER THAT ALREADY, NO MATTER WHAT THE INCREASES ARE MOVING FORWARD. AND ONE OTHER THING THAT CRAIG MENTIONED THAT WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT TODAY IS THE POSSIBILITY OF, YOU KNOW, A FIVE YEAR PLAN ON WHAT THOSE RATES LOOK LIKE MOVING FORWARD AND AN ESCALATOR TO WHERE THAT CAN BE APPROVED ONE TIME FOR FIVE YEARS. SO SOMETHING TO CONSIDER MOVING FORWARD. MAYBE WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT NEXT YEAR. I THINK THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE. EXCUSE ME. MR. GO AHEAD. MEN'S STOKER TALKED ABOUT IT. 
          THERE'S A LOT OF COMMERCIAL PROPERTY OUT HERE THAT'S USING SMALL GARBAGE CANS. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE GETTING GA COMMERCIAL STYLE MONEY, AND THEY NEED THOSE TALL CANS BECAUSE I CAN I CAN TAKE YOU RIGHT NOW AND SHOW YOU TWO RESTAURANTS THAT'S JUST THROWING OVER BECAUSE THEY HAVE RESIDENTIAL CANS. WE'RE LOSING MONEY RIGHT THERE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT CHARGING THEM COMMERCIAL. AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE CHARGING OR NOT, BUT THEY NEED COMMERCIAL STYLE CANS AND SIZE SO THAT WE CAN CHARGE FOR THAT. WHEN YOU SEE THOSE, WE JUST NEED TO CALL THEM OUT AND WE'LL CORRECT. WELL, I'VE CALLED THEM OUT WHEN WE FIRST GOT IN AND WELL, THERE'S THERE'S A WHOLE LINE OF THEM SITTING RIGHT THERE ON GRANT STREET OVER THESE APARTMENTS ARE USING. A LOT OF THEM ARE USING SMALL RESIDENTIAL CANS. AND, AND I'M PRETTY SURE THEY'RE PAYING RESIDENTIAL FEES. EXACTLY. THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY THAT WE CAN MAKE UP. SO ONE, ONE OTHER THING. WE PASS A BUDGET EVERY YEAR. THIS WATER AND SEWER SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE BUDGET THAT WE'RE WORKING ON. INSTEAD OF THIS BEING A SEPARATE LINE ITEM EVERY YEAR. IT IS IT IS INCLUDED IN THERE IT IS. WE DID. SO I'M JUST SAYING IT SHOULD BE THIS SHOULD WE'RE WE'RE ABOUT TO VOTE ON AN ORDINANCE TO RAISE THIS. WHAT I'M SAYING IS I JUST VOTED ON RAISING TAXES ON OUR GENERAL FUND COMING IN. WHY CAN'T ALL OF THIS BE GROUPED TOGETHER? WE VOTE ONE TIME ON THIS AND QUIT BRINGING UP ORDINANCE AFTER ORDINANCE AFTER ORDINANCE ON HERE. ORDINANCES REQUIRE THAT YOU'RE READING. SO. YES. WELL, AND THAT'S FINE. THAT ORDINANCE IS COULD HAVE COVERED THIS ALREADY. AND AN ORDINANCE AND FEES NEED TO BE DETERMINED SEPARATELY BY ORDINANCE AS WELL. SO IT'S, IT'S, IT'S MAYBE IT'S AN UNFORTUNATE STEP OR MAYBE IT'S NOT, I DON'T KNOW. BUT IT IS WHAT WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO THOUGH. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? YES, SIR. QUESTION FOR CITY MANAGER. WE HAD CRM IS REALLY THE QUESTION. WE BROUGHT IT UP AS A TOPIC AND THEY'RE INCREASING THEIR RATES THIS YEAR. MAYBE ALEX KNOWS OR THAT YOU KNOW, WHAT ABOUT LAST YEAR? IS IT EVERY YEAR? I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE RATE INCREASE WAS LAST YEAR. ALEX. I DON'T SPECIFICALLY KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD WHAT THE RATE INCREASE WAS, BUT IT IS. DO YOU THINK IS IT A HIT. IT'S EVERY YEAR WE WE DO GET SOME TYPE OF INCREASE OR DECREASE DEPENDING ON ELECTRICAL SERVICE CHARGES THAT THEY RECEIVE FROM PUMPING REQUIREMENTS, AS MR. THOMPSON SAID, AND IT FLUCTUATES. THE DEMAND CHARGE WILL GO UP OR GO DOWN. THERE IS A WAY THAT THEY PROVIDE THAT TO US NOW. THEY PROVIDE THAT TO US EVERY SEPTEMBER. WE STILL HAVE NOT RECEIVED THEIR THEIR LETTERS 
          [00:35:04]
TELLING US WHAT THE RATE WOULD BE. BUT WE DO RECEIVE AN ANNUAL LETTER. AND THEY THEY LOOK AT THEIR. BUT IT GOES OFF OF THEIR BUDGET AND PUMPING CAPACITY, CERTAIN THINGS LIKE THAT FOR OUR MEMBER CITY. IT'S IN OUR CONTRACT THAT WAS DONE QUITE, QUITE A LONG TIME AGO. JUST JUST TO UNDERSTAND IT HISTORICALLY. YES, SIR. YEAH, YEAH. JUST IT'S A YEARLY ANNUAL LETTER THAT WE RECEIVE FROM THEM. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YES. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS OR CONCERNS? IF NOT, ENTERTAIN A MOTION, MAYOR. I'D MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ACCEPT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE THE ORDINANCE ADOPTING THE FISCAL YEAR 2020 627 FEE SCHEDULE. MAINTAINING CURRENT NON UTILITY FEES. APPROVING THE PROPOSED 3% INCREASE WATER, SEWER, SOLID WASTE AND STORMWATER RATES. APPLICABLE SERVICE FEES. IS THERE A SECOND, SECOND, SECOND BY COUNCIL MEMBER CONNELL? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? I KNOW WHATEVER YOU SAY TO OPPOSE IT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT. IT'S 5 TO 1 VOTE. ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN. SO MOVED. MOTION BY COUNCIL MEMBER THOMPSON. SECOND BY COUNCIL MEMBER CONNELL.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.